I'm not usually one to start throwing stones in glass houses, but after reading Bill Noble's article in the H&P I think it is time for a healthy discussion. By healthy discussion - it will probably end in a rant

The only regrettable thing is that there aren't too many dressage fanatics on this board (like myself) but feel free to pipe up with your thoughts.

I have returned from a two day competition. A fairly big one. Challenge classes, YDH qualifiers etc. The judging was so skewed and bizarre I know I wasn't the only one surprised/concerned for our judging future. I took two horses, they are chalk and cheese next to each other. Both were in the same classes. I wasn't particularly effected by the judging, and I realise it is subjective, but woowee, there were some doozies of errors made by the judges across all levels.

It struck me that judges are not rewarding correct training for the future, rather they are rewarding the very submissive, but probably won't progress type of horses. There were many there that were either terribly on the forehand (yet obedient) who were being hugely rewarded for that fact, despite the fact that the horse can not proceed past elementary in that state of training. They were also rewarding those that were pulled in from the front (yet swinging legs prettily) but who lacked bend and suppleness through the neck/body/jaw. They also cannot progress towards the higher levels. The horses who were light in the forehand, were not rewarded with their marks, despite being the talented type who perhaps have a little shy, or broke (trot-->canter, or vice versa). These horses tended to be greener, and with mileage, will easily progress through the grades.

I felt particularly sorry for the competitor who received 54% from one judge, and 65% from another - what were the judges doing???? Watching different tests/riders!?!?! This happened quite a lot throughout the weekend. What do we do? What can we do?

Don't get me started on musical freestyles. In order to judge these they need to be paying attention. In my case, I had one horse do a very hard technical test at Novice which had 10m circles, leg yield, lengthen across the diagonal to a change of lead, 2 canter lengthens, 2 trot lengthens etc etc, as opposed to my other horse whose hardest movement was a 3 loop serpentine, yet the horse with the easiest test got the higher technical mark??? WTF?!

Probably the hardest thing that I am trying to swallow is having judges pass comment on the horses/riders, who have NEVER even ridden a burluddy horse. I'm sorry, but reading a book, and watching a seminar doesn't make you an expert on contact/feel/tension etc.

Do we need to implement a rule (that was bandied around a few years ago) that judges can only judge one level higher than what they have ridden. ie: you have to have ridden advanced in order to judge GP. Or something similar? We need to have some form of accountability/control over these judges, because if we don't, we will end up with riders resenting judges, and then not competing, furthering our already declining numbers....

I'm waiting with baited breath to see what the fall out from this last show will be...

hmm, i must say that I have wondered myself sometimes with the judging. I'm not a dressage fanatic by any means and prefer to breed horses than compete them! I went to a dressage forum that Waitemata Dressage group put on a few months ago. 2 top nz judges were there - They explained that it may look like some horses are being rewarded for misbehaviour/mistakes but really, it's because some horses have a higher buffer of points to start with (as in paces/impulsion X 2) I've seen horses at the lower levels misbehave badly, as in rear and back, they would've got really low marks for that movement, but still ended up placing.

it sure does make you wounder when the scores that the judges give out there are so different from one another, espech if they have those guidelines there to what they should be looking for.

Another non dressage fantic (prefer to jump) but dabble badly in dressage from time to time

I have to admit ive wondered on some judges too.... and Ive written for a few that Ive been like hmmmm....

As long as their judging is consistant with the entire class I suppose.....

Like the thought of having to have ridden at AT LEAST the level below or higher.... perhpas scoring a particular percentage!

was it Nelson Kerry???

My coach went to Nelson for the weekend and she ranted and raved about the skewed judging too!

someone who did 3 course errors but the judges didn't mark down the 3 because she'd had a concussion (a while ago!) and it affected her memory WTF?!

a rider winning a level 3 test doing rising trot the whole time etc...

Must say I'm rather pleased I didn't waste my money and go over!

No KA, not Nelson, much further south.

3 course errors = elimination, plain and simple.

Rising trot the whole way through an elementary test = elimination, plain and simple (unless dispensation was granted for that rider), however, I tried dispensation for a broken tail bone and got told it was nigh on impossible.

I just don't know what we can do about this judging!!! I haven't struck it this badly before, but lord knows there are OBVIOUSLY some problems, and these problems obviously need sorting!

yep and obviously it's not a one off thing at one show since it was both south and up here!

Diane said perhaps they got a rark up at the forum and have gone a bit haywire LOL

is there somewhere that holds judges accountable? ie their governing body or is that all part and parcel of NZEF? Surely there is someone you can write to and voice displeasure with examples etc to at least bring it to the attention of the powers to be so they can perhaps memo judges etc?

Maybe... but I don't want to be the one rattling the dags. I don't care what people say, it comes back on you no matter what! There are only 6 judges in Canty that can judge advanced - when I ride before them every week, I don't want them thinking about anything other than what they see before them....

On the plus side, Soo Wells (rules officer) was there, and was also mentioning the disparities in scoring, so hopefully she will raise it with someone...

ah well therein lies the problem....

everyone wants to bitch about it but not actually do anything

same all round the world in every sport.... you could always shift to Cambridge and get a fresh start