well I consider it when UNASKED for to be an evasion on the horses part... they consider it to be a body position to work further muscles untouched by other work (is that it in a simplistic form?) so for them to ask it has a reason, but only when wanted right?

Like Mac wanting to charge off at the walk so we make him slow right down beyond what is normal... if THEY want to do something we do the opposite... I can see their point of using it, whether or not I agree with it...

I don't want Mac to walk around with TOO much flexion to the left, but now in our training it's necessary to loosen that side up, but I wouldn't ride in the arena like that would I...

There is a good book by Dr. Gerd Heuschmann "Tug of war, classical versus Modern Dressage". He states all the fact, everybody can build his/her own opinion after reading the physical happenings, practicing rollkur. this book takes all the guess work out of it. He wrote a second book but I don't remember the title just off the top of my head.

so on a whole, he says it has a place in training???

I suggest you get that book and read it. Don't ask for my interpretation, get his opinion.

aaaaah but you see, I won't get his book, and hate reading books like that, so I like to be lazy and get other people to tell me what was said LOL

to me, if they cannot do it naturally, you shouldnt force them with rein and or other equipment to make them do it. i dont even lunge my horses..... now that is another debate tho.

Here is a link from discussions in Canada re your topic: Have fun reading!

http://barnmice.ning.com/forum/topics/rollkur-or-hyperflexion?page=4&commentId=1773158%3AComment%3A174616&x=1#1773158Comment174616

No KA, Dr. Gerd Heuschmann is violently opposed to Rollkur. Doesn't matter what he writes in his book, his own personal thoughts are VERY well known.

cheers Kerry... VERY well known doesn't mean I have a clue PMSL.